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What is a Community Translated Subtitle (CTS) Release?


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#1  DarkSmurf

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    Posted 21 Dec 10 - 10:45 AM

    Hi Everyone,

    1) What is a Community Translated Subtitle (CTS) Release?

    There are loads of Chinese subtitled version of Korean Drama. It is possible to have them converted by machine translation into English version very quickly if one is available. Although, a machine translated sub is not perfect. But a good translator program can still get pretty understandable subtitles. So far the software translator that I used (not Google Translate) so far can accurate translate from Chinese to English and make it 80% keeping the meaning. Only some name terms and stuff may not be that correct. To me, I find you can get the idea pretty well, just the grammar and stuff are terrible. That's all. Hence, I call it a Preview Subtitle.

    However, there are so many Korean Drama and on my own there is no way I can work on so many projects at any one time. Waiting for proper Subtitle releases by those subtitle groups can sometimes take such a long time. Hence, I thought that with my Web Translator Editor, users (especially those who knows Chinese, can actually help out to clean up the translation for the episode that you are interested to watch. As you clean up the lines, there is a community subtitle which will automatically be updated with your translation.


    2) What is the benefits?

    • Fast Release - Chinese Subtitles is almost out the next day or following day after the release. So once it is out, it takes about 10-15 minutes to re-sync the sub into the like HanRel video encoded version, and run through the translation software.


    3) Why did I create this community project?

    I am always looking out for new drama releases for me and my mum to watch. And I always find the english subtitles generally take a very long time. Without it, my mum cannot understand read the chinese text. So have been doing this on a personal level to have a preview of the drama. So far, I always find the machine translation pretty good enough as a preview subtitle.

    Coz, I know how much as a user, you want to kinda know what is going on in the episode. Sometimes, I also personally use this way to watch an episode that a sub is not available yet. So this allows one to have a sneak preview into the episode very quickly. Seeing how users don't mind downloading pre-releases (unedited etc). Tells me that many users are just like me, can't wait to know what is being said. Yes, the machine translation isn't perfect, but the one I used so far give about 80% accuracy as far as I noticed. That is pretty good for a machine unedited translation. So I believe users will enjoy this feature.

    This was one of the reason I wanted to created my Web Translator/Editor. To allow different translators/editors to work on the same project and allowing for the subtitles to be released faster.

    So I thought of using my Web Translator/Editor to provide for a Community Translated Subtitle. And it will help me test out the Web Translator Editor to see how else I can improve it for multiple translator or editor to use simultaneously. So fans who are interested in the drama that you want to watch, help other fans have a properly translated subtitle.


    4) How can you be part of this Community Translated Subtitle (CTS) Project Team Member?

    If you like to help make this project better, come join the CTS Project Team Member. Find out more how you can help:-

    URL: http://www.darksmurf...t-team-members/


    Again, this another exclusive feature for Members who have signed up my forum. Hope you like this and enjoy it.

    Warmest Regards
    DarkSmurf


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    #2 jay050

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    Posted 22 Dec 10 - 10:30 PM

    great...thanx alot
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    #3 pelangi

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    Posted 24 Dec 10 - 03:54 PM

    Really good Idea, I will joint to support...

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    #4 Thommy

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    Posted 24 Dec 10 - 10:00 PM

    Hi Darksmurf, I like the concept but can provide some feedback for you coming from a lot of experience editing my (chinese) wife's translation of Korean drama based articles from Chinese.
    She has been translating for years and as you are finding, the additional editing makes a big difference.

    I found it difficult to use your process editing individual lines without the context that is provided from the previous and following lines.

    This method often leads to incorrect translation. I find choosing the appropriate english words that most closely match the translation from Chinese is often difficult unless in context.

    For example, Mary E13 is already translated and I compared the google translation here and if using your process as it is currently, would have come up with totally different sentences.

    As we are translating without the video for reference (ie. as when using subtitle workshop) it can make it tricky.

    Perhaps adding the previous and following lines for reference only, you can improve the process.

    Does anyone else perhaps use the video in the background for assistance???

    Good luck with your endeavours and thanks for all your hard work on Dae Mul, Dong-Yi and King of Baking. My wife and I greatly appreciate your efforts.

    Let me know if you are stuck for editors or need help any time.

    Cheers, Thommy.
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    #5  DarkSmurf

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    Posted 25 Dec 10 - 01:24 AM

    Hi Darksmurf, I like the concept but can provide some feedback for you coming from a lot of experience editing my (chinese) wife's translation of Korean drama based articles from Chinese.
    She has been translating for years and as you are finding, the additional editing makes a big difference.

    I found it difficult to use your process editing individual lines without the context that is provided from the previous and following lines.

    This method often leads to incorrect translation. I find choosing the appropriate english words that most closely match the translation from Chinese is often difficult unless in context.

    For example, Mary E13 is already translated and I compared the google translation here and if using your process as it is currently, would have come up with totally different sentences.

    As we are translating without the video for reference (ie. as when using subtitle workshop) it can make it tricky.

    Perhaps adding the previous and following lines for reference only, you can improve the process.

    Does anyone else perhaps use the video in the background for assistance???

    Good luck with your endeavours and thanks for all your hard work on Dae Mul, Dong-Yi and King of Baking. My wife and I greatly appreciate your efforts.

    Let me know if you are stuck for editors or need help any time.

    Cheers, Thommy.


    Hi Thommy,

    Thanks for your feedback. Please keep your feedback coming. This is a very new project, so although I have been improving it, it will take a while to get it improved. Which is why I am opening up more projects so that easier for users to try and get familiar with the concept. And gather more feedback for me to see how I can improve it.

    The only issue now is the full editor is not yet multi-user friendly. There is no issue to support one main translator and one main editor. So I cannot let editors use it yet. So I did partial editing, where anyone can help work on a few lines each time.

    Anyway, the idea of previous and next lines are great ideas. I have just coded something that allows users to preview the earlier lines. This should help for the time being. Both for the editing and translation process.

    Of course, if I can get the full multi-user editor ready, it would be even better:)

    Not worry, once I complete Dae Mul (last two episodes this week), I will have a little more time to really improve the editor and add lots more features. Users so far appear to like the idea and so I will be working to make it easier for everyone to help in the process. Meanwhile, some of these basic features I have made available is to let users get an idea that they can possibly play a part in the entire community effort.

    Ideally, it would be best to have a separate video of playing but not every user will do that so. As long as the translator can make sure the lines are translated without changing the original meaning, it will generally be fairly accurate.

    Later, even to have some ways for some users to become primary/secondary translator/editor to take charge of the entire episode etc. But I still need more work to get that ready. Those will make sure the final compiled project is correct etc. Something like a final QC for the project.

    So your feedback is greatly appreciated.
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    #6 Thommy

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    Posted 25 Dec 10 - 10:08 AM

    Sounds like you are on to something DS. I'll try and spend some time beta testing fior you and see how we go. Hope you are having a good xmas and not eating too much like us... take care... Thommy

    #7 jaque

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    Posted 27 Dec 10 - 11:51 PM

    DS: I have left some feedback on my experience trying to edit the subtitles for grammar using your edit pages, in the Flames of Ambition thread. A global text search/replace to fix the translated names of people, is what would be nice. No idea how one can have a safe way to do global search/replace though, avoiding inadvertant changes though.
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    #8 naeus

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    Posted 28 Dec 10 - 06:02 PM

    thanks for doing this great site and would love to make feedback as well... i thought of adding an FAQs(FRequently Asked Questions on your menu page so that as we go along with this we find out Q&A and update them immediately...

    for one is...as i went to the beta editing i notice some grammar and sentence structure error on previous lines and doesnt allow me to edit those...like Thommy mentioned it is essential to have the previous line correct so that the next line can follow...maybe i missed out some instruction do forgive me...

    im not sure if its possible for editing to be done even if somebody else has save it already...perhaps the site needs to enlist the help of a topic moderator to ensure that the grammars and all are correct...

    i will spend time on your site and will helpp out as best as i can...really appreciate you effort coz it means that the more people can help out in the future, the faster we can get the subtitles :)

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    #9 Archon

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    Posted 29 Dec 10 - 02:17 PM

    Hi

    Thanks for trying this out I guess. I like the general idea but I'm skeptical if it's going to work. When you said it keeps the meaning 80% I was hopeful. But after browsing through some sub files it has made my head hurt. The grammar as you said is terrible, and really that's the main thing for me. I don't mind if things are a little bit off here and there which is usually the case with drama subtitles but this stuff was almost gibberish to me. I wanted to help out with the editing of some stuff (being a native English speaker and having some experience subbing) but I was sat there scratching my head at points trying to parse the sentence, and change it into something more understandable. The google translate was a little better in this regard. From my small bit of testing it seemed to translate some sentences better. However, I'm basing that on pure guess work because I don't know Chinese so can't be sure how clearly it keeps the meaning. I do know that it did seem to be a lot more readable in English using Google translate, although there were still some sentences where there really wasn't much difference between what was on the script already and what Google translate produced.

    Personally, I think that I probably wouldn't be able to help out unless someone went through the scripts a bit beforehand to sort out the translation a bit so that I could hopefully grasp the meaning better and then hopefully I'd be able to help with tidying up the grammar. The main series I'm interested in at the moment is All My Love and that's because this way I can get softsubs for use with the raw HD episodes I have so far.

    Now that those thoughts are out of the way, some suggestions for what could be added to the web editor. As it stands I can't see a way to switch between different lines to edit without saving changes, if that makes any sense. I don't even know if saving the changes moves you onto the next set of lines to edit. Currently, when I go into the edit/translation stuff I have 5 lines that I can change and I can see the 5 lines before and after those 5 editable lines. However, if I want to change the 5 lines preceding the 5 editable lines there doesn't seem to be a way to do that. It's also difficult to go to the lines you want to change. As I see it, you click on the links to edit the script and you are taken to some lines but there's no way of moving on from there without going back to click on that edit or translate link, and there's no way of knowing which lines it will take you towards.

    So my suggestions are to have some forward and backward buttons that allow you to move through the entire script. Basically when you click forward you will highlight the next 5 lines so that they are editable, and backwards will highlight the previous 5 lines so that they are editable. Also when you move forward and backwards like that, the previous and next lines should also be updated. E.g I click the link to edit the script and am taken to lines 30-34, however, I want to change lines 25-29 which I can see from the previous lines but can't edit. So I click backward (or previous 5 lines or whatever) and it highlights lines 25-29 so that I can change them. Now I can see lines 21-24 and also 30-34. That's what I mean. Hope that makes sense. Also perhaps you could have a jump to button that takes you directly to a specified line which you type the number of and you can then edit that line and 4 others as per usual.

    #10  DarkSmurf

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    Posted 29 Dec 10 - 03:53 PM

    Thanks for trying this out I guess. I like the general idea but I'm skeptical if it's going to work. When you said it keeps the meaning 80% I was hopeful. But after browsing through some sub files it has made my head hurt. The grammar as you said is terrible, and really that's the main thing for me. I don't mind if things are a little bit off here and there which is usually the case with drama subtitles but this stuff was almost gibberish to me.


    To be honest, English vs Chinese and Korean sentence structure is very different. As far I can tell you, the translation virtually follows each part of the translation very precisely. Just that sometimes it puts certain words behind etc. Because it is not perfect. But honestly, if you compare to google translate and etc. This one keeps the sentence to the most "accurate" form of the sentence meaning. Meaning it does not attempt to rephrase it like Google Translate does. Of which, the essence of the sentence structure is gone.

    I can tell you that by reading this translation, I can more or less get everything. The areas that do not make sense to you are usually because Chinese uses a lot of those literature type of 4 characters expressions. Those kind is very difficult to properly translate to english at times. And a lot of times the actors in those drama, actually give those kind of crazy out of the word kind of description. That literally makes translation for those kind of sentence difficult.

    But seriously, I mean even though it is not perfect, even if I do read a book, I do not go word for word, from what is said it is still easy to know what is going on. At least I have no problems with that. Of course, if you are seriously so bordered about grammar, then it may bother you.

    I wanted to help out with the editing of some stuff (being a native English speaker and having some experience subbing) but I was sat there scratching my head at points trying to parse the sentence, and change it into something more understandable. The google translate was a little better in this regard. From my small bit of testing it seemed to translate some sentences better. However, I'm basing that on pure guess work because I don't know Chinese so can't be sure how clearly it keeps the meaning. I do know that it did seem to be a lot more readable in English using Google translate, although there were still some sentences where there really wasn't much difference between what was on the script already and what Google translate produced.

    Personally, I think that I probably wouldn't be able to help out unless someone went through the scripts a bit beforehand to sort out the translation a bit so that I could hopefully grasp the meaning better and then hopefully I'd be able to help with tidying up the grammar. The main series I'm interested in at the moment is All My Love and that's because this way I can get softsubs for use with the raw HD episodes I have so far.


    Seriously, to translate properly you need to really know the chinese text. If you just edit from the lines, you may still get it wrong. That is why I am try to make two different components, those who can read the chinese help with those translation. While those who cannot, only help out in editing lines that have been translated.

    But when I first created it, I haven't fully thought out from the user point of view. Now with about a week of user usage and feedback. I am aware of what needs to be revised. And hence, I have made the necessary revision.

    I still think this concept will work, but problem was the editing feature was terrible. It was not flexible enough. I admit that. I did not think of how users will be actually doing the editing.

    Now that those thoughts are out of the way, some suggestions for what could be added to the web editor. As it stands I can't see a way to switch between different lines to edit without saving changes, if that makes any sense. I don't even know if saving the changes moves you onto the next set of lines to edit. Currently, when I go into the edit/translation stuff I have 5 lines that I can change and I can see the 5 lines before and after those 5 editable lines. However, if I want to change the 5 lines preceding the 5 editable lines there doesn't seem to be a way to do that. It's also difficult to go to the lines you want to change. As I see it, you click on the links to edit the script and you are taken to some lines but there's no way of moving on from there without going back to click on that edit or translate link, and there's no way of knowing which lines it will take you towards.

    So my suggestions are to have some forward and backward buttons that allow you to move through the entire script. Basically when you click forward you will highlight the next 5 lines so that they are editable, and backwards will highlight the previous 5 lines so that they are editable. Also when you move forward and backwards like that, the previous and next lines should also be updated. E.g I click the link to edit the script and am taken to lines 30-34, however, I want to change lines 25-29 which I can see from the previous lines but can't edit. So I click backward (or previous 5 lines or whatever) and it highlights lines 25-29 so that I can change them. Now I can see lines 21-24 and also 30-34. That's what I mean. Hope that makes sense. Also perhaps you could have a jump to button that takes you directly to a specified line which you type the number of and you can then edit that line and 4 others as per usual.


    That was really my very 1st version of the editor. My original concept was to let users help out by randomly picking out certain lines to edit. But I found that won't be the best thing to do. So I have completely revamp the editing to let all users see the entire subtitle, so it is easier to translate/edit. Then users, just need to select the lines they want to edit and save the changes.

    This I think is will solve all the previous problems. Coz, users are free to read through the entire subtitle, and they can start off and continue from wherever they want to.

    So I am pretty sure I solved most of the issues users face with the editor now. See the link for more information:-

    URL: http://www.darksmurf...slationediting/


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    #11 Archon

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    Posted 29 Dec 10 - 05:09 PM

    To be honest, English vs Chinese and Korean sentence structure is very different. As far I can tell you, the translation virtually follows each part of the translation very precisely. Just that sometimes it puts certain words behind etc. Because it is not perfect. But honestly, if you compare to google translate and etc. This one keeps the sentence to the most "accurate" form of the sentence meaning. Meaning it does not attempt to rephrase it like Google Translate does. Of which, the essence of the sentence structure is gone.

    I can tell you that by reading this translation, I can more or less get everything. The areas that do not make sense to you are usually because Chinese uses a lot of those literature type of 4 characters expressions. Those kind is very difficult to properly translate to english at times. And a lot of times the actors in those drama, actually give those kind of crazy out of the word kind of description. That literally makes translation for those kind of sentence difficult.

    But seriously, I mean even though it is not perfect, even if I do read a book, I do not go word for word, from what is said it is still easy to know what is going on. At least I have no problems with that. Of course, if you are seriously so bordered about grammar, then it may bother you.


    Well to give you some examples of what I mean:

    All My Love episode 1

    Line 5: I trace feel to be good vs I'll feel good to touch it

    Line 18: Originally is this I is to gain study Huang Cai to temporarily leave school -- So I turned yellow to make it drop out of school

    Line 28: Feeds us to see off party today for Jin Zhikai how every kind -- Hello Today we open a farewell party to the War and how everything

    Line 37: She died immediately must install the rich man -- She died soon be fitted with the rich

    Line 277: Do not eat the streaky pork which our Jin Zhi likes to be what kind of like this -- Come on, eat pork like how we like The Golden Bough

    Just picked some lines at random and compared them. Google translate is the second version. If I was watching with the first set I would really struggle. Same with the second set to be honest. Perhaps they'd make more sense when watched along with the video...

    The main reason I'm skeptical of the project is that it's still going to require someone to go over the translations. Finding people to translate has always been the sticking point, as you're no doubt aware it's a very time consuming process, and not everyone wants to do that. Once that's done it'd be easier to shape it into something more readable and understandable by editing. Perhaps I'm just thinking of different things for this project. Maybe I'm the only one that feels this way, perhaps others will be happy to take what is already there. Perhaps we will see lots of activity for it. I certainly hope that is the case because I like the idea, and it can possibly mean we can get subs of stuff that no one else would bother with usually, which is one of the main reasons I'm hoping this project really gets off the ground.

    By the way, trying the new format and it does seem much better now. It's a lot easier to go to the lines you want and edit/translate as required. I don't know if this is strictly necessary but is there a way you could perhaps track changes to the script? Sort of like a log of changes, when they were made and what changes were made. So it can allow people to roll back to previous versions of the script or something? Or perhaps this is something that's not very useful?

    edit: I should add that I don't mean to be whiny. I'll certainly be around to help out on stuff and put the effort where my mouth is.

    #12  DarkSmurf

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    Posted 29 Dec 10 - 05:38 PM

    Well to give you some examples of what I mean:

    All My Love episode 1

    Line 5: I trace feel to be good vs I'll feel good to touch it

    Line 18: Originally is this I is to gain study Huang Cai to temporarily leave school -- So I turned yellow to make it drop out of school

    Line 28: Feeds us to see off party today for Jin Zhikai how every kind -- Hello Today we open a farewell party to the War and how everything

    Line 37: She died immediately must install the rich man -- She died soon be fitted with the rich

    Line 277: Do not eat the streaky pork which our Jin Zhi likes to be what kind of like this -- Come on, eat pork like how we like The Golden Bough

    Just picked some lines at random and compared them. Google translate is the second version. If I was watching with the first set I would really struggle. Same with the second set to be honest. Perhaps they'd make more sense when watched along with the video...


    This portion you need the chinese subtitle to exactly what it means or the actual video. That is why you noticed I specially specify those who can read Chinese to help in the translation. Coz, only when you can read those line, will you know the way to phrase it. You cannot expect a non chinese speaker to be able get the correct meaning.

    Non-Chinese speakers will be good to help spot the editing and stuff. Coz, I can tell you the Chinese Translators sometimes because we know different ways of phrasing it, sometimes it is not as well phrased as an english speaker.

    That is the 20% of the stuff which you may not understand word for word, but you can understand like the rough idea such as the 1st like it "feels good". Or the 2nd line is like drop out of school or something like that. That is seriously enough to get a gist of the whole story. It will not be perfect until a Chinese editor can edit it.

    I think the older editor isn't friend enough (got the feedback 1st day when users tried it), which is what users have feedback, so the editing and stuff isn't yet done quickly. But it will work out. I already have many users who said they like to help out. So as I make it easier, more will help in the translation, and virtually anyone can help in the editing. It took me a while to think of a way to solve it. So it will take time to perfect it.


    The main reason I'm skeptical of the project is that it's still going to require someone to go over the translations. Finding people to translate has always been the sticking point, as you're no doubt aware it's a very time consuming process, and not everyone wants to do that. Once that's done it'd be easier to shape it into something more readable and understandable by editing. Perhaps I'm just thinking of different things for this project. Maybe I'm the only one that feels this way, perhaps others will be happy to take what is already there. Perhaps we will see lots of activity for it. I certainly hope that is the case because I like the idea, and it can possibly mean we can get subs of stuff that no one else would bother with usually, which is one of the main reasons I'm hoping this project really gets off the ground.


    It is still new, so I do not expect people to immediately help out. But as you see doing this I can easily add all the dramas quickly. And really it most users already happy they can at least understand what is going on. So even the Preview Subtitle is already something user do not mind.

    The translation/editing will need more people to help out. Once there are more helping out it will get easier. But at the same time the editor must be friendly enough. This is where I be improving it. Once it get to version 2 or 3, there system would probably by nothing you see right now.

    By the way, trying the new format and it does seem much better now. It's a lot easier to go to the lines you want and edit/translate as required. I don't know if this is strictly necessary but is there a way you could perhaps track changes to the script? Sort of like a log of changes, when they were made and what changes were made. So it can allow people to roll back to previous versions of the script or something? Or perhaps this is something that's not very useful?


    Later, I do intend to have some user account, then it is possible to track the user id and stuff. For now, it will be a little difficult. But good enough for multi users to work on simultaneously:)

    edit: I should add that I don't mean to be whiny. I'll certainly be around to help out on stuff and put the effort where my mouth is.


    I welcome feedback. It is through feedback that things can improved. The goal for me is to find a way to get subs translated quickly. And people appear to like the preview as they find it good enough to understand (better than none at all). The translating/editing will depend on my editor. As I make it easier to work on, more people will help out. I am certain of this. Coz, no way you can get a faster translation than this. Whether later there will be further dedicated main translator or so, I am also working for ways to clean up each episode those are still things I have to work out a system. Plenty more to work. But many users can already see the potential. Hence, it is workable. Just needs time to perfect the entire process. Not bad for a 1 week old beta, as far as I can tell.

    Warmest Regards
    DarkSmurf


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    #13 jaque

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    Posted 29 Dec 10 - 10:11 PM

    The changed edit facility is much much better, and handles all the concerns I had. I had basically ground to a halt at about 25% subs-editing on Flames.of.Ambition ep 22 yesterday, as many of the random 5-lines it was giving me were all already edited by me, and it was a pain to see the old bad lines again - not to mention moving forward and backward to various parts of the drama, losing continuity and wasting time to reset the contexts in my mind. It is all handled now, and I think editing is at least three times faster, it seems to me. Terrific.

    Thanks a lot, DS. Let me finish a bit more and will comment on some of the chinese translation issues above..

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    #14  DarkSmurf

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    Posted 29 Dec 10 - 11:53 PM

    @jaque, thanks for your feedback. Great to hear that it has fixed most of the concerns.

    After hearing the users initial feedback, I realised my initial system was designed wrongly. Initially, I was just hoping different people help out in different section. It was really unfriendly for editors and such.

    This new system is re-designed with the editors and translators in mind. Such as easy way without having to move back and forth. Able to pick any lines you want to start from. And also to solve the problem of what if the line has been re-updated. How to pick up the latest information. So with this single line editing, the latest changes is always updated before you make any changes.

    Of course, I am still looking how I can make it easier to update. Probably, I be looking into an ajax style design next. So any changes can also be re-updated into the content. But that will probably take a while to code properly. So this system should work out for now.

    Still looking at more enhancements. But I think at least for now, I got the system in the right direction:)

    Please continue to give all feedback, good or bad. They will help me think of ways to improve the system.

    Warmest Regards
    DarkSmurf


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    #15 jaque

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    Posted 31 Dec 10 - 03:07 AM

    DarkSmurf, A small technical problem. It seems I hit an enter, thinking it would split the sbtitle line into two, while editing the line 504 of Flames of Ambition Ep.22 .. For some reason, that put the timing marker of the next line 505 as the beginning text of line 505 inside the edit box. So, I edited that out. On the subtitle edit page, the extra line I typed in line 504 (actually saying that it was a totally different sub than the translation from the chinese, but it was unnecessary) does not show up in the edit box. But it seems to have stayed in the srt file and is not according to the srt format it seems.

    So, when I download the latest srt file, the Windows Media Player does not load it and gives an error because of that line. If I manually edit the downloaded srt file on my computer, remove the line just above 505 (make it a blank line) and add the timing marker for line 505, then the srt file works. But I cannot edit the srt file at the site. Can you edit as below and clear up the problem in the online srt file?. Otherwise, I don't think the downloaded sub would load now with the video players....

    ============

    504
    00:38:52,464 --> 00:38:56,465
    When father needs me, I would know that well

    [totally different translation from the Chinese subs! Check]
    505
    At that time, I will come back

    ============> change to

    504
    00:38:52,464 --> 00:38:56,465
    When father needs me, I would know that well

    505
    00:38:56,999 --> 00:38:59,397
    At that time, I will come back

    ============


    I was not aware that hitting an enter in a subtitle line, would cause a problem. Not sure how the timing marker of the next line got into the edit box as subtitle text, which is why edited it out (but the edit box still shows the timing correctly, and only the downloaded srt file is corrupt). It could be that editing out the timing from within the next text box would cause problem. May be I was unaware of some detail in this. Hope I am making the issue clear for you, and you can figure it out. Thanks!

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    #16  DarkSmurf

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    Posted 31 Dec 10 - 03:16 AM

    Hi Jaque,

    I have fixed it. The .srt stores each new set of line by an empty line. So that is how I coded the system to read it. I will probably have to put some coding to prevent this later on. Thanks for your feedback.


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    #17 ezy

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    Posted 01 Jan 11 - 09:12 PM

    Hi Darksmurf,

    I just used your web-based to translate MSOAN Eps 16. I have a few suggestions. Ignore it if it's too much to ask.

    1) Create an account. So that I can access from anywhere and do the translation from any computer. Also, I can keep the previous episodes for reference while translating the current one.
    2) Video embedded suggestion would be great. It would be super awesome if the video is broken up into a few, so that the translator can target which part he/she needs to play. I am not sure if you ever encounter "I'm not sure who is talking since Chinese language always omits the pronoun" kind of problem. This problem somewhat bothers me since the english sentence won't make sense without the pronouns.
    3) More text editing tools. Sometime I can only translate some parts partially, maybe because I don't understand the context and so on. Tools like highlighting or changing the font size or color would help me to get back to those part again later without browsing and reading everything again.

    I will edit this post again if I think of other suggestion. I'm just wondering, will you create a project for the drama Dream High?

    #18  DarkSmurf

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    Posted 02 Jan 11 - 04:30 AM

    I just used your web-based to translate MSOAN Eps 16. I have a few suggestions. Ignore it if it's too much to ask.


    No problem, I welcome all feedback (good or bad). That is the only way to improve the system.

    1) Create an account. So that I can access from anywhere and do the translation from any computer. Also, I can keep the previous episodes for reference while translating the current one.


    I haven't coded an account system yet since that usually complicates the initial development of the software. But that is certainly something that I plan to do as the system get to a more mature development. This whole project is still less than 1 month old, of which a lot of features are also less than a few weeks old. So there are still lots to do. Will need time to implement them. Main focus is the main editing system must work properly first:)


    2) Video embedded suggestion would be great. It would be super awesome if the video is broken up into a few, so that the translator can target which part he/she needs to play. I am not sure if you ever encounter "I'm not sure who is talking since Chinese language always omits the pronoun" kind of problem. This problem somewhat bothers me since the english sentence won't make sense without the pronouns.


    I find online streaming very slow, so although it is possible to link to like the chinese sites that have the actual flash streaming of that video. But, often than not, I usually will playback the video source on my desktop whenever I do the editing so I can see the editor and video to make sure the lines are properly translated. I think this is far more efficient then the online streaming which can be slow as you have to wait for the stream.

    3) More text editing tools. Sometime I can only translate some parts partially, maybe because I don't understand the context and so on. Tools like highlighting or changing the font size or color would help me to get back to those part again later without browsing and reading everything again.


    Those are good idea, but I probably will need to get some kind of account system up and going, so there is someway to store these personalised comments or notes without conflicting others. Or, I could also add a comment field for all the teams to add comments between each other. For now, I usually add some special marker ie [???] or something like that, so I can do a search to find it again. But I will certainly look at improve this area.

    I will edit this post again if I think of other suggestion. I'm just wondering, will you create a project for the drama Dream High?


    As long as the soft-sub is available, I will add them in. Only exception is unless it is a licensed drama or something like that, then I won't.

    Thanks very much for your feedback and for trying out the editor. Hope that it has made it easier to translate the episode:)


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    #19 jaque

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    Posted 03 Jan 11 - 06:42 PM

    I am not sure if you ever encounter "I'm not sure who is talking since Chinese language always omits the pronoun" kind of problem. This problem somewhat bothers me since the english sentence won't make sense without the pronouns.

    There are all kinds of other problems in the Chinese subs, but what can we do - that is the first thing that comes out, and the best we can do is to try to fix as much as we can, as a community! From editing for grammar in the translations of a few episodes here, I have already got a fair idea about the usual problems to fix.

    That brings up something that I am curious about. Perhaps somebody who knows Chinese and Korean very well can answer. Do the chinese subs convey the nuances of how things are said in Korean in these dramas, at all? Eespecially since chinese words are sort of cavaliarly borrowed in Korean over history (and their meanings have changed from chinese too, somewhat). I assume that as a language Chinese can bring out the details in these Korean dialogs - but these are two languages quite different in nature/structure, so I'm unsure.

    At least based on quick-translated chinese subs here, I get the feeling that a lot of nuances are just completely lost. Especially the extreme use of negations and questions in Korean, and how they convey nuanced ideas. Though Korean also skips a lot of pronouns, there are very clear schemes there to figure out what/who anything refers to. Due to the compactness of the chinese writing system, I wonder if things are getting lost in the subs. While editing for grammar, I often have to bring back in English so many nuances by listening to the original Korean. Though not easy and not always briefly enough, I think English can convey a fair bit of the details in the Korean dialogs. I wonder if it is so in Chinese.

    My question is whether a native Korean who knows Chinese very fluently would find the original chinese subs to convey (or even able to convey) what the original Korean lines are. Probably only a native Korean can answer that question. Just curious to know, as I know zero Chinese.

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    #20  DarkSmurf

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    Posted 04 Jan 11 - 12:17 AM

    Hi Jaque,

    You see firstly you have to know where the chinese subtitles are produced and transcribe from. There are like 3-4 major chinese translation group doing legal translations for legal chinese streaming. Major groups usually are like TSKS or there is no properly english name but it like Korean-Han group or something like that. Those are the ones that do these drama translations. Hence, the translation is usually pretty good spot on.

    I have what quite a lot, and because I can also understand most of the korean structure, I find it almost spot on most of the time, except for some areas. Most of the time it is minor stuff. Maybe except for a few lines here and there they are translated way too descriptive. So for those who do not understand Chinese and try to translate back to english some of these lines may not be properly translated back into english.

    Hence, I know that there is no problem depending on the chinese subtitles (most of the time), unless the subtitles do not come from these big groups, then the error in translation rate may be slightly higher. Like when the transcribe site was down Dae Mul ep 22 and 23 or something was done by someone else. Wow, that was terrible to translate because a lot that was said did not match what I heard. Hence, had to use the proper video from TSKS to correct it.

    So in most cases, the one I add usually are from these popular groups. So they should be pretty ok. Hence, as long as you translate exactly as the chinese sentence, the translation is often no far off.


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