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Korean Terms


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#1  WaGGy

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    Posted 10 Feb 11 - 05:06 AM

    Last edited April 13, 2011: Major changes done.

    This is still a work in progress. I took the liberty of making a compilation of the Basic Terms used in Korean dramas both contemporary and sageuk, not only for the benefit of the Newbies but also for the translators/editors/QC.

    The terms are categorized for better reference.



    Legend:
    English Translation Romanized Word Word in Korean (Extra information/examples)

    **for pronunciation reference you can check Learning Korean Lesson 1 (and next one Lesson 2).
    **the Romanization of the words are in KRS since not all systems can generate the ŏ & ŭ which are used in the MRS system. Link for Learning Korean thread : http://www.darksmurf..._7897#entry7897

    YES/NO
    YES in Korean actually means I agree and NO means I don’t agree
    Yes = Ne or Ye
    No = Aniyo 아니요

    GREETINGS
    Hello, Good morning, Goof afternoon, Good evening, How are you?, How do you do? =
    *all of these greetings are incorporated in a single Korean expression, like a universal greeting that literally means “Are you at peace?
    A reply to these greetings, in all cases, may be a repetition of the above phrase preceded by Nae, which means “Yes”
    Annyeong haseyo 안녕하세요
    Yeoboseyo 여보세요 (used only on the phone)
    *More formal version of this term is (for someone older or higher in rank)
    Annyeong hasimnikka 안녕하십니까
    *Informal or shortcut
    Annyeong would be enough

    Goodbye =
    Annyeonghi gyeseyo 언녕히 계세요 (said by the person leaving, literally means “Stay in Peace”)
    Annyeonghi gaseyo 언녕히 가세요 (said by the person not leaving, literally means “Go in Peace”)
    Sugo Haseyo 수고하세요 (said by a person leaving a workplace, literally means “Work Hard”)

    Thank You =
    gamsa hamnida 감사합니다
    gomapsumnida 고맙습니다
    gomawo 고마ㅝ (informal, used for friends or younger person)
    You are Welcome = cheon maneyo 천만에요

    I LOVE YOU = Sarang haeyo 사랑애요
    I’m Sorry = joesong hamnida 죄송합니다
    Excuse me = mian hamnida 미안합니다

    THE BASIC QUESTIONS
    How = Eotteoke 얻덯게
    Where = Eodi 어디
    When = Eonje 언제
    Who = Nugu 누구
    Why = Wae
    What = Mwo 무엇

    Korean Expression
    Aigoo = Ohh (the word doesn’t have a direct translation but we assume it to be the same as “oh” in English)
    Ya! = Hey! (this is an expression often used. For a newbie this would be confusing)
    Wa = Ahh


    Family & Work Terms SOON

    -----------

    SAGEUK Related Terms
    Sageuk 사극 – Korean Historical dramas
    Arirang아리랑 – best known Korean folksong about lovers parting over a hill.
    Hanbok한복 – traditional Korean clothing
    Poseokjeong 포석정 – Pavilion of Stone Abalone
    Sura sanggung 수라상궁 – three palace women servants who remove bowl covers and offer foods to the king and queen after ensuring that the dishes are not poisoned
    Gisaeng 기생– female Korean entertainer. They were artists who worked to entertain others
    Sanggung 상궁 – court lady, a supervisor amongst the female palace servants.
    Kungnyo 궁뇨– palace girl, example a maidservant at the palace.
    Gayageum가야금 The gayageum is a twelve-stringed zither, also called the gayatgo, dated to the 8th to 9th century. Gayageum have twelve silk strings supported by twelve movable bridges; the strings are plucked with the fingers to produce a clear sound.
    Gongbok 공복 - A formal attire worn when officers/officials have an audience with the King.
    Gung – palace.
    Wanggung 왕궁 – Royal Palace
    Jae – mansion.
    Jon – hall.
    Jongmyo 종묘 – Royal ancestral shrine.
    Hongyongpo 홍용포 – the King's red official robes.
    Myunyugwan 문유관 – ceremonial motarboard hat with colored beads, back and front, indicating rank: twelve for the Emperor, nine for the King, seven for the Heir Apparent, five for his son, three for officials.
    Juksuk 죽숙 – the King's red silk ceremonial shoes.
    Jobok 조복– official court attire worn by officials above the third rank.
    Baji 바지 – Korean baggy pants
    Hwa – tradiational Korean boots

    During the Joseon Dynasty and Goryeo Dynasty & the Social Classes
    Gwageo 과거 – National Civil Service Exam. Typically quite demanding, these tests measured candidates knowledge of the Chinese classics, and sometimes also of technical subjects. Gwageo served as the primary route to secure positions in the government or military. The examinations fell under three broad categories:
    mungwa 문과 – The literary examinations
    mugwa 무과 – military examinations
    japgwa 쟢과 – miscellaneous examinations covering topics such as medicine, geography, astronomy, and translation.
    Yangban 양반 – part of the traditional ruling class or nobles. Literally means "two ranks" which refers to two different kinds of bureaucrats: munban 문반 – the literary and scholarly rank and muban 무반 – the martial rank
    jungin 중인 – the petite bourgeoisie of the Joseon Dynasty. The name "chungin" literally means "middle people". This privileged class of commoners consisted of a small group of petty bureaucrats and other skilled workers whose technical and administrative skills enabled the yangban and the wangjok to rule the lower classes.
    Sangmin 상인– the common people of Joseon Korea. About 75% of all Koreans at that time were sangmin. The sangmin consisted of peasants, laborers, fishermen, some craftsmen and merchants. The sangmin were considered "clean workers" but had little social status. Generally they were poor.
    Cheonmin 천민 - vulgar commoners," were the lowest caste of commoners in dynastical Korea
    Baekjeong 백정– “untouchable” outcast group


    ROYALTIES
    There are 2 sets: During the Kingdom and during the Empire, but with only slight difference, mostly spelling.
    Guide Suffixes/prefixes
    Nim – suffix that indicates honorific title, example Wangjanim.
    Bi – suffix used for the senior wives (consort) of the King/Monarch.
    Bin – the suffix used in the titles of the second highest rank of the King's wives or concubine, usually those who had borne a child by him.
    Tae or Dae – refers to great or grand.

    TERMS used for Royalties (from oldest to youngest and their rank)
    Taesangwang 태상왕Former Grand King
    Daewangdaebi 대왕대비Grand Royal Queen Dowager, the current king's great-grandmother
    Wangdaebi 왕대비Royal Queen Dowager, the current king’s grandmother, mother or aunt who was married to a Sangwang This term is used when a Daebi is serving as regent if the king is still very young to rule.
    Sangwang 상왕Former King. They still remain influential even after they have voluntarily transferred their power to their son or abdicated.
    Daebi 대비Queen Dowager, the current king’s mother.

    Wang the current king
    Seondaewang 선대왕Great Predecessor King, for references to late Monarch
    Daewang 대왕Great King, for references to late Monarch
    Gugwang 국왕State King, for foreign envoys
    Wangbi 왕비the current queen, the Wang’s first wife
    Wanghu 왕후 – title consisting of two Hanja in front plus the customary suffix Queen. Used for queen consorts that remained married to the king until their death
    Kwibin 귀빈Royal concubine, first order
    Kwi-in 귀인Precious person or noble lady, title used as a prefix for the second rank of concubines, usually those who had borne a child and received a certificate of status.

    Gun Prince, sons of the King's secondary wives; eldest sons and eldest grandsons of Taegun, borne by principal wives; all sons of a Crown Prince; and meritorious subjects of the first and second class.
    Daegun 대군Grand Prince, son of the Wang and Wangbi. A title that is not inherited, his sons are mere princes.
    Gunbuin 군부인Princess Consort, wife of a Gun
    Bubuin 부부인Grand Princess Consort, wife of a Daegun
    Wangja 왕자Royal Prince before being crowned as heir to the throne.
    Wonja 원자Primary prince, the title of the first born son of a Wangbi
    Wangseja 왕세자Crown Prince
    Seja 세자Prince Successor, simplified Wangseja
    Wangnyo 왕뇨Princess, daughter of the Wang
    Wangsejabin 왕세자빈Crown Princess, wife of Wangseja
    Sejabin 세자빈 - Princess Successor, simplified Wangsejabin
    Wangseson 왕세손Heir Presumptive, heir in succession to the Wangseja or grandson of Wang
    Wangson 왕손Prince, grandson of a Wang, descended in the male line from a junior wife.
    Gongju 공주Princess, daughter of Wang and Wangbi
    Ongju 옹주Princess, daughter of Wang and Kwibin or Kwi-in
    Gunju 군주Princess, daughter of a Wangseja and Wangsejabin
    Wangseje 왕세제Prince, younger brother of the Wangseja

    How to address them (others are used as suffix):
    Mama 마마His/Her Royal Highness. Sometimes Choha. Addressed to the Taesangwang, Daewangdaebi, Wangdaebi, Daebi, Wang, Wangbi, Wonja, Wangseja (not common). Example: Daebimama
    Jeonha 전하His Majesty. Sometimes Chonho. Addressed to the Wang, Sangwang, Taesangwang, Hwangtaeja, Wangseja
    **Old terms used before Jeonha:
    Naratnim 나랏님
    Imgeum 임금

    **Formal terms used in the court to refer to the king when he is not present or when an old king or queen address the crown prince
    Geumsang 금상 – current king
    Jusang 주상 or Sanggam 상감 – sovereign (or Sanggammama)

    Agissi 아기씨His/Her Young Highness. Addressed to a Gun, Daegun before marriage, Gongju before marriage, Ongju before marriage
    Daegam 대감His Excellency. Addressed to a married Gun, Daegun
    Jaga 자가Her Excellency. Addressed to a married Gongju, married Ongju
    Manura 마노라 or Manura 마누라Her Royal Consort Highness. Addressed to the Wangsejabin
    Abamama 아바마마 – used by Prince and Princess when calling their father (Wang)
    Omamama 오마마마 – used by Prince and Princess when calling their mother (Wangbi)
    Halmamama 할마마마 – used by the prince/princess to their grandmother (Daewangdaebi, Wangdeabi, Daebi)
    Halbamama 할바마마 – used by the prince/princess to their grandfather (Taesangwang, Sangwang, Wang)
    Jungjeonmama 중전마마Her Majesty, used by the people when they call the queen
    Mamanim 마마님– used to call palace ladies with higher rank
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    #2 imnotdavidxD

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    Posted 10 Feb 11 - 05:19 AM

    I love this thread, really helps :). Im going to pin it :)
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    #3  WaGGy

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    Posted 10 Feb 11 - 05:43 AM

    Thanks imnotdavidxD! :) It still needs a lot of improvement but we'll get there.

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    #4  milkyway

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    Posted 10 Feb 11 - 05:56 AM

    This is a good thread. I think we should standardize it too. I have been seeing multiple different terms used in the same drama.. :)

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    #5 grungetta_25

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    Posted 10 Feb 11 - 09:21 AM

    Nice idea!
    Here's my two cents....
    I notice that some of the spelling used is not what is currently out there in Kdrama land. ex Onnie vs Unni or Unnie or Sunsaeng nim vs Sungsengnim and the spelling conventions could vary depending on the romanization system used such as the McCune-Reischauer system,Yale or Revised Romanization. Currently the Revised Romanization system is commonly used as it is supposedly closer and easier for non native speakers to pronounce.

    Ex:

    Family
    wife : a-nae
    husband : nam-pyeon
    daughter : ttal
    son : adeul
    mother : omma (if you are a child), o-mmo-ni (if you are an adult)
    father : oppa (if you are a child), o-bo-ji ( if you are an adult)
    friend : chin-gu
    older brother: oppa (if you are female), hyung ( if you are male)
    older sister: unnie ( if you are female), noona ( if you are male)


    Basic Words
    Hello : annyong hashimnigga (formal)
    Good bye: (to someone leaving) annyonghi kaseyo
    Good bye: (to someone staying) annyonghi kyeseyo
    Please : put’ak hamnida
    Thank you : kamsa hamnida

    I think for spelling conventions we should just pick one. They are all correct it's just a matter of convenience.

    Thanks!
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    #6 MishMash012

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    Posted 10 Feb 11 - 09:23 AM

    I completely agree. I'm glad we have this thread... I think most of the phrase translations shouldn't be typed out directly from the Korean though... mainly just names/titles etc... And what have we decided to do about the names like sek-ki and kyejibae, etc?

    Also as to your question about which way of spelling is better... I think it depends on how picky you want to get because technically there are two different letters in the Korean alphabet that could be translate as u there's 어 and 우. Also for K/G dilemma, depending on where the sound is in the name it will change whether it's K or G if that makes sense (generally if it's at the beginning of a name it sounds like g, but if it's in the middle it sounds like K)... So I feel like standardizing how to spell might be kinda difficult...
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    #7 Pekopon

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    Posted 10 Feb 11 - 01:49 PM

    I want to add some basic terms. WaGGy, you can copy this and add to your first post if it useful. So everyone can see the complete guide at the first time they open this discussion. tee-hee... ;)

    # Greeting/Expression
    Mannaso ban-gaweoyo: nice to meet you
    Eoseo oseyo: welcome (by employee or store/restaurant owner to customers)
    Duwajuseyo: please help me
    Keokjeonghajimaseyo: Don't worry
    Himnaeseyo: Cheer up
    Najunge bwa: See you later / Najunge: later
    Jal jinaeyo: take care
    Mom joshimhae: take care
    Sesange!: oh my! oh dear!
    Omona!: My goodness!
    Sanggwan obseoyo: it doesn't matter / have nothing to do with...
    Saengil chukhahaeyo: happy birthday
    Saranghaeyo: I love you (I think everybody know this...)
    Chogiyo / jamshimmanyo: excuse me! (to get someone's attention)

    # How to address people
    Samchun: uncle (family related)
    Gomo: aunt (father's sister)
    Imo: aunt (mother's sister)
    Son-nyeo: granddaughter
    Sonja: grandson
    Hoobae: junior

    about korean slang, I found these on various sites:
    Dagssaliya: It's gross (directly means "I got chicken bumps". We say it when we disgusted by something or someone)
    Sseolleonghae: It's a lame joke (directly means "it's chilly")
    Je jeongshiniya?: Are you out of your mind?
    Ppeong-i-ya: It's a joke / just kidding
    Utgijima / ppeongchijima: don't make me laugh (or, "don't try to be funny")
    dwettgodeun: don't talk anymore (directly means "please stop")
    Nakkyeosseo: you got me (directly means "I fish up something")
    Nakkattji?: I got you, didn't I? (directly means "you fish up something")
    Danggeuniji: you bet (directly means "it is carrot")

    I hope these phrases were useful...
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    #8  WaGGy

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    Posted 11 Feb 11 - 07:49 AM

    I want to add some basic terms. WaGGy, you can copy this and add to your first post if it useful. So everyone can see the complete guide at the first time they open this discussion. tee-hee... ;)
    I hope these phrases were useful...

    Nice idea!
    Here's my two cents....
    I notice that some of the spelling used is not what is currently out there in Kdrama land. ex Onnie vs Unni or Unnie or Sunsaeng nim vs Sungsengnim and the spelling conventions could vary depending on the romanization system used such as the McCune-Reischauer system,Yale or Revised Romanization. Currently the Revised Romanization system is commonly used as it is supposedly closer and easier for non native speakers to pronounce.
    I think for spelling conventions we should just pick one. They are all correct it's just a matter of convenience.

    I completely agree. I'm glad we have this thread... I think most of the phrase translations shouldn't be typed out directly from the Korean though... mainly just names/titles etc... And what have we decided to do about the names like sek-ki and kyejibae, etc?

    Also as to your question about which way of spelling is better... I think it depends on how picky you want to get because technically there are two different letters in the Korean alphabet that could be translate as u there's 어 and 우. Also for K/G dilemma, depending on where the sound is in the name it will change whether it's K or G if that makes sense (generally if it's at the beginning of a name it sounds like g, but if it's in the middle it sounds like K)... So I feel like standardizing how to spell might be kinda difficult...


    grungetta_25 & Pekopon thanks for sharing. I'll categorize and add them to the list ;-) MishMash012, thanks for your input :) You gave me an idea, hence I went back to research.

    I agree with you on choosing a particular way to do the spelling, but...yes, it is difficult! ;) I checked some sites and I found some good ones. At present, many are still confused with the spelling even Koreans themselves. In learning the Korean Language, it is often said that it is better to start by learning how to write before learning how speak. It should be 1-WRITE 2-READ 3-SPEAK.

    That's a bit of bad news for someone like me (maybe the others too), since what motivated me to learn the language is to understand the Kdramas - spoken words. I had some lessons months ago and we started by learning the Korean alphabet, sadly I didn't finish the course. If only there is a way to learn Korean faster by reversing that process - speak, read, write. The good news is, the method/process we are using in this forum can actually help in the standardization.

    1-written Chinese words to 2-direct Korean translation to 3-understandable English.

    From Step 2 to 3, this is where we can apply KRS (Korean Romanized Spelling). If we can get the exact translation of the name from Chinese to Korean, then we could apply the KRS for the spelling, since it is the one used in South Korea, although I also refer to McCune-Reischaue because of the weakness of the RRKS (Revised Romanized Korean Spelling).

    I don't want to bore you with the explanations, but basically with the list below you'd know what I mean :) I’ll make appropriate changes in the first post.

    What has been changed?
    1. "ㄱ, ㄷ, ㅂ, ㅈ" have been changed from "k, t, p, and ch" to "g, d, b, and j."
    - 광주 Kwangju >> Gwangju
    - 대구 Taegu >> Daegu
    - 부산 Pusan >> Busan
    - 제주 Cheju >> Jeju

    2. "ㅋ, ㅌ, ㅍ, ㅊ" have been changed from "k', t', p', and ch'" to "k, t, p, and ch."
    - 태안 T'aean >> Taean
    - 충주 Ch'ungju >> Chungju

    3. "ㅅ" used to be written as "sh" and "s," depending on context. Now it will be written as "s" in all cases.
    -신라 Shilla >> Silla
    - 실상사 Shilsangsa >> Silsangsa
    ** this means it should be --- “ajussi” and NOT “ajusshi”

    4. "어", "으" have been changed from "" and "" to "eo" and "eu."
    -성주 Sngju >> Seongju
    - 금곡 Kmgok >> Geumgok

    #1 & #3 – this two I think we could already standardize and place as a Guideline for translators.

    #2 & # 4 - are tricky, since what we do is mostly is LISTEN and not READ. The Romanization is more applicable if translation is from written words.

    The confusing thing is, since we don’t know how the names are spelled out, we can’t make the appropriate changes, and there are a lot of variations per name, especially with the use of “o”, “u”, “eo” & “eu”, more so if they are used in combinations! Many are not putting the symbols above the letters (ex. ŭ), they just use plain English alphabet “o” or “u” when typing.

    From the articles I’ve read, I noticed that with the Romanized Korean names,
    ŭ = eu like in --- Sŭng >> Seung
    ŏ = eo like in --- Hyŏng >> Hyeong
    (ŭ is a McCune-Reischauer Romanization to signify the close back unrounded vowel in 으)
    A combination example is - Ŏgŭm >> Eogeum

    But remember
    ŭ is not = u
    ŏ is not = o
    - “o” will still be “o” like in : Chong >> Jong compared to Chŏn >> Jeon
    - “u” will still be “u’ like in : Chun >> Jun compared to Kŭn >> Geun

    In # 4, for the interested ones, I found the article below:
    Vowels
    Aren't "eo" and "eu" rather distant from "어" and "으"?

    When it comes to views about the new system, many have expressed opposition to transcribing "어" as "eo" and "으" as "eu." Some may think it ideal to write "어" as "o" and "으" as "u," but then there becomes no way to distinguishing "어" from "오" and "으" from "우." This leaves one with little choice but to develop a way to make this distinction. As long as "" and "" are no longer going to be used, the only option available is to Romanize "어" and "으" using two Roman letters.
    "어" is a front vowel, while "으" is a back vowel. Both lie between "o." "으" comes from closer to the front of the mouth than "u," and so it was decided to place add "e" in front of "o" and "u". Given the phonetic characteristics of Korean, a language of many written vowels all of which experience no variation, we are left with little option but to explain to non-native speakers that "eo" is "어" and "eu" is "으." Roman letters will have their own sound value in every language, whether that languages uses Roman letters as its main script or only when Romanized. Using "eo" and "eu" to Romanize "어" and "으" is unavoidable.

    Family names
    Will family names be written according to the new system?

    In principle family names should follow the new system, but there are names that will have difficulty doing this. The family name "이" should be written as "I," but no one with this family name currently writes their name this way. Ninety five percent of all persons with the family name "이" write their name "Lee," though one can also find "Rhee," "Yi,"
    "Ri," "Li," "Rhie," and "Lie." The Ministry of Culture and Tourism will continue to work towards determining methods of Romanization for family names that might have difficulty following the new system and announce these separately. Some family names may require the setting of a separate standard for the sake of consistency within that name. This will be determined as the soonest date possible.

    Business names
    Will business and schools have to change the spelling of their names?

    Just as in the case of Romanizations of personal names that have already been established, businesses that so desire may continue to use previously established Romanizations. Business names such as Samsung and Hyundai, both known the world over, will not be required to change to "Samseong" and "Hyeondae." New companies, however, will be encouraged to follow this system. Also, the government will gladly welcome decisions by companies using inconsistent names to follow the new system.
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    #9 grungetta_25

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    Posted 11 Feb 11 - 08:57 AM

    Thanks for your detailed explanation, I also took classes and I'm still in the middle, one book I use has the KRC but another one is using the Yale system and at the end of the day I just have a headache LOL. The things we do to feed our addictions...... I think we should make a list of basic terms and have a poll like this

    Translation MR System KRC system Vote
    Older sister ( female speaking) Onnie Unnie K

    This way we come up terms which are authentic at the same time fan friendly. I don't think we need to go into great detail, just the most common terms or those which lose meaning in translation. And for those of us who would like to learn we can just have a language exchange forum.

    Aja! Aja! Fighting!





    grungetta_25 & Pekopon thanks for sharing. I'll categorize and add them to the list ;-) MishMash012, thanks for your input :) You gave me an idea, hence I went back to research.

    I agree with you on choosing a particular way to do the spelling, but...yes, it is difficult! ;) I checked some sites and I found some good ones. At present, many are still confused with the spelling even Koreans themselves. In learning the Korean Language, it is often said that it is better to start by learning how to write before learning how speak. It should be 1-WRITE 2-READ 3-SPEAK.

    That's a bit of bad news for someone like me (maybe the others too), since what motivated me to learn the language is to understand the Kdramas - spoken words. I had some lessons months ago and we started by learning the Korean alphabet, sadly I didn't finish the course. If only there is a way to learn Korean faster by reversing that process - speak, read, write. The good news is, the method/process we are using in this forum can actually help in the standardization.

    1-written Chinese words to 2-direct Korean translation to 3-understandable English.

    From Step 2 to 3, this is where we can apply KRS (Korean Romanized Spelling). If we can get the exact translation of the name from Chinese to Korean, then we could apply the KRS for the spelling, since it is the one used in South Korea, although I also refer to McCune-Reischaue because of the weakness of the RRKS (Revised Romanized Korean Spelling).

    I don't want to bore you with the explanations, but basically with the list below you'd know what I mean :) I’ll make appropriate changes in the first post.

    What has been changed?
    1. "ㄱ, ㄷ, ㅂ, ㅈ" have been changed from "k, t, p, and ch" to "g, d, b, and j."
    - 광주 Kwangju >> Gwangju
    - 대구 Taegu >> Daegu
    - 부산 Pusan >> Busan
    - 제주 Cheju >> Jeju

    2. "ㅋ, ㅌ, ㅍ, ㅊ" have been changed from "k', t', p', and ch'" to "k, t, p, and ch."
    - 태안 T'aean >> Taean
    - 충주 Ch'ungju >> Chungju

    3. "ㅅ" used to be written as "sh" and "s," depending on context. Now it will be written as "s" in all cases.
    -신라 Shilla >> Silla
    - 실상사 Shilsangsa >> Silsangsa
    ** this means it should be --- “ajussi” and NOT “ajusshi”

    4. "어", "으" have been changed from "" and "" to "eo" and "eu."
    -성주 Sngju >> Seongju
    - 금곡 Kmgok >> Geumgok

    #1 & #3 – this two I think we could already standardize and place as a Guideline for translators.

    #2 & # 4 - are tricky, since what we do is mostly is LISTEN and not READ. The Romanization is more applicable if translation is from written words.

    The confusing thing is, since we don’t know how the names are spelled out, we can’t make the appropriate changes, and there are a lot of variations per name, especially with the use of “o”, “u”, “eo” & “eu”, more so if they are used in combinations! Many are not putting the symbols above the letters (ex. ŭ), they just use plain English alphabet “o” or “u” when typing.

    From the articles I’ve read, I noticed that with the Romanized Korean names,
    ŭ = eu like in --- Sŭng >> Seung
    ŏ = eo like in --- Hyŏng >> Hyeong
    (ŭ is a McCune-Reischauer Romanization to signify the close back unrounded vowel in 으)
    A combination example is - Ŏgŭm >> Eogeum

    But remember
    ŭ is not = u
    ŏ is not = o
    - “o” will still be “o” like in : Chong >> Jong compared to Chŏn >> Jeon
    - “u” will still be “u’ like in : Chun >> Jun compared to Kŭn >> Geun

    In # 4, for the interested ones, I found the article below:
    Vowels
    Aren't "eo" and "eu" rather distant from "어" and "으"?

    When it comes to views about the new system, many have expressed opposition to transcribing "어" as "eo" and "으" as "eu." Some may think it ideal to write "어" as "o" and "으" as "u," but then there becomes no way to distinguishing "어" from "오" and "으" from "우." This leaves one with little choice but to develop a way to make this distinction. As long as "" and "" are no longer going to be used, the only option available is to Romanize "어" and "으" using two Roman letters.
    "어" is a front vowel, while "으" is a back vowel. Both lie between "o." "으" comes from closer to the front of the mouth than "u," and so it was decided to place add "e" in front of "o" and "u". Given the phonetic characteristics of Korean, a language of many written vowels all of which experience no variation, we are left with little option but to explain to non-native speakers that "eo" is "어" and "eu" is "으." Roman letters will have their own sound value in every language, whether that languages uses Roman letters as its main script or only when Romanized. Using "eo" and "eu" to Romanize "어" and "으" is unavoidable.

    Family names
    Will family names be written according to the new system?

    In principle family names should follow the new system, but there are names that will have difficulty doing this. The family name "이" should be written as "I," but no one with this family name currently writes their name this way. Ninety five percent of all persons with the family name "이" write their name "Lee," though one can also find "Rhee," "Yi,"
    "Ri," "Li," "Rhie," and "Lie." The Ministry of Culture and Tourism will continue to work towards determining methods of Romanization for family names that might have difficulty following the new system and announce these separately. Some family names may require the setting of a separate standard for the sake of consistency within that name. This will be determined as the soonest date possible.

    Business names
    Will business and schools have to change the spelling of their names?

    Just as in the case of Romanizations of personal names that have already been established, businesses that so desire may continue to use previously established Romanizations. Business names such as Samsung and Hyundai, both known the world over, will not be required to change to "Samseong" and "Hyeondae." New companies, however, will be encouraged to follow this system. Also, the government will gladly welcome decisions by companies using inconsistent names to follow the new system.



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    #10  WaGGy

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    Posted 11 Feb 11 - 09:06 AM

    Thanks for your detailed explanation, I also took classes and I'm still in the middle, one book I use has the KRC but another one is using the Yale system and at the end of the day I just have a headache LOL. The things we do to feed our addictions...... I think we should make a list of basic terms and have a poll like this

    Translation MR System KRC system Vote
    Older sister ( female speaking) Onnie Unnie K

    This way we come up terms which are authentic at the same time fan friendly. I don't think we need to go into great detail, just the most common terms or those which lose meaning in translation. And for those of us who would like to learn we can just have a language exchange forum.

    Aja! Aja! Fighting!


    I've been thinking about that too...but there are a LOT of terms LOL :blink: Do we need a form for that in this forum or something? I noticed that I could add a poll but it only requires 1 answer, but what we need are many answers. We could also vote per category, like 'family terms' in general - shall be we use the MR or KRS one...we just have to sort them out properly.

    In the meantime, I'll wait for contributions, reactions and comments, others might have something to say and from that we could have a better design/plan. :)

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    #11  DarkSmurf

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    Posted 12 Feb 11 - 03:04 AM

    Great job guys. Another great and useful thread!

    Yes, it is indeed time to get some things standardize so easier to keep a consistent subtitle file. Maybe I should create an open forum so that those who are not yet a CTS member can also access this reference and guidelines. So they can help out in the editing to keep everything more consistent.

    Feel free to keep coming up with whatever useful resources that will help improve the subtitle. I will get the forum section sorted out so that members can easily access it.


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    #12 Yocto

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    Posted 12 Feb 11 - 03:51 AM

    father : oppa (if you are a child), o-bo-ji ( if you are an adult)



    Father : Abeoji
    Daddy : Appa

    "Oppa" is the cute/romantic way a girl call her boyfriend ... ;)


    :)
    // Yocto
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    #13 grungetta_25

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    Posted 12 Feb 11 - 04:03 AM

    Hi! Waggy,

    Let's wait and see what the others say.... perhaps just one poll is required to start with and that is to choose which romanization system to use. MR or KR. Once we have established the system we are all using then we can have a basic terms list which only uses that romanization system. The list should only contain basic and most commonly used terms like ahjusshi, unnie, etc. The list should not be too extensive as that equals brain overload... let's simplify our lives. Perhaps just the top 100 words. As for the complexities of the Korean language we could just create a language forum where we can share and debate to our heart's content. Once we have established the list it will be finalised, locked and what we will all use. Variable issues like Korean names... we can just decided at the start of a series then lock and use that for the entire series. So at the start we will have an index of character names with standardised spellings. We will only have basic terms list to refer to. In the separate language forum we can share new words we picked up and help each other to pick up Korean.

    Thanks again

    :D





    I've been thinking about that too...but there are a LOT of terms LOL :blink: Do we need a form for that in this forum or something? I noticed that I could add a poll but it only requires 1 answer, but what we need are many answers. We could also vote per category, like 'family terms' in general - shall be we use the MR or KRS one...we just have to sort them out properly.

    In the meantime, I'll wait for contributions, reactions and comments, others might have something to say and from that we could have a better design/plan. :)



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    #14 MishMash012

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    Posted 12 Feb 11 - 06:07 AM

    I basically agree with everything grungetta said. I didn't learn how to read Korean out of a book, most of how I learned to read was from the help of a Korean friend, so I am not really familiar with the different styles. I got confused in your description... Were you referencing the 2 different styles or suggesting to combine them? I do think that we should establish a forum where contributors, or even non-contributors, can vote on what style to use (we'll have to write a quick, clean-cut description). I also agree with the ideas for having a set list of phrases. Maybe we should actually create a glossary instead of just any list, and then people can type the new word into the search bar and a nice, detailed description can come up with that word, if it was part of the site proper than people could even do this while on the editing page. I feel like people might not want to search through a long list. If we do end up making one of these long lists I would love to volunteer my help in trying to find the best definition of some of the trickier terms (like oppa).

    There is something to be careful about though... As someone who has been watching K-dramas for a while I know most of the terms and have seen NUMEROUS terms such as oppa being used as just the romanized form instead of trying to translate it, and I feel there are some terms that are so commonly just kept in the original Korean that everyone has grown accustomed to seeing it. For instance, Oppa is spelled 오빠 in Korean right... so according to what you posted we should write it "obba" but I very rarely see it written this way. I think it's at points like this we have to ask ourselves, do we want to defy the preexisting conventions to stick with one comprehensible system, or do we want to translate it in the way that everyone would be able to recognize it... Just some food for thought...''




    Hi! Waggy,

    Let's wait and see what the others say.... perhaps just one poll is required to start with and that is to choose which romanization system to use. MR or KR. Once we have established the system we are all using then we can have a basic terms list which only uses that romanization system. The list should only contain basic and most commonly used terms like ahjusshi, unnie, etc. The list should not be too extensive as that equals brain overload... let's simplify our lives. Perhaps just the top 100 words. As for the complexities of the Korean language we could just create a language forum where we can share and debate to our heart's content. Once we have established the list it will be finalised, locked and what we will all use. Variable issues like Korean names... we can just decided at the start of a series then lock and use that for the entire series. So at the start we will have an index of character names with standardised spellings. We will only have basic terms list to refer to. In the separate language forum we can share new words we picked up and help each other to pick up Korean.

    Thanks again

    :D


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    #15 Yocto

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    Posted 12 Feb 11 - 10:08 AM

    For instance, Oppa is spelled 오빠 in Korean right... so according to what you posted we should write it "obba" but I very rarely see it written this way.



    Yes, Oppa is spelled like that.

    is a consonant called Bieup. It's pronounced as P or B.


    :)
    // Yocto

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    #16 Clent

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    Posted 12 Feb 11 - 03:55 PM

    Great job guys. Another great and useful thread!

    Yes, it is indeed time to get some things standardize so easier to keep a consistent subtitle file. Maybe I should create an open forum so that those who are not yet a CTS member can also access this reference and guidelines. So they can help out in the editing to keep everything more consistent.

    Feel free to keep coming up with whatever useful resources that will help improve the subtitle. I will get the forum section sorted out so that members can easily access it.


    I agree with you on this one. Let us consider this as a draft and once we finish it up and make a finalized page, we can move it over to the public forum. We also need to finalize a few grammar issues. More info here:
    http://www.darksmurf...alls-of-korean/
    http://www.darksmurf...interpretation/

    What I mean about grammar and spelling is the uniformity of the subtitles. Here is the post where I express my opinion on it:
    http://www.darksmurf...ndpost__p__3621

    Thank you team members for having the initiative approach and posting these information up.

    Edit: Also, a good idea is to see how the other subtitle teams are doing with their spelling. If 99% of the other subtitle teams are using one type of spelling (Unnie, Ajussi) and we use some other method (Eonnie, Ajusshi) then it also breaks up the fluid issue that I mentioned in the uniformity post.
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    #17 Clent

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    Posted 14 Feb 11 - 06:14 AM

    Here are a few posts that deals with whether we should use the Korean to English words of oppa, unnie or translate it into English like brother, sister. All members should help decide which one too do.

    http://www.darksmurf...ndpost__p__4338
    http://www.darksmurf...ndpost__p__4343
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    #18  WaGGy

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    Posted 14 Feb 11 - 07:50 AM

    Your comments are noted :)

    I also have the same issues with the spelling of some words, esp with the Romanization Rules. Some Korean syllables are pronounced almost the same way but with different spelling, still confuses me sometimes.

    Oppa for example:
    Yocto mentioned it is spelled as 'OPPA', pronounced usually sounding as a 'P', but MishMash012 has point if we use the RKRS it will be spelled as 'OBBA' which many are not used to, but it is a correct way of spelling it given the rules.

    We really have to decide soon about the Standardization of of our translations, but our Standard Guideline does not have to be strictly by the book. We can bend the rules a little, whatever is best for the viewers. It will be set of rules used by translators & editors. I agree with grungetta we have to limit it - just the most common words that we usually encounter while watching K-dramas, mostly how they address one another. A Modern Kdrama has different way of addressing the characters compared to Sageuk (historical dramas), so we shall have another category for that.

    I also agree with having a Glossary, this would be an expanded version of the Basic Terms that will come later (which reminds me MishMash012 I sent you a PM about Project Oppa ;) ). We can also have an open discussion with the regular members, some of them may want clarifications about Korean words.

    This issue about Standardization goes hand in hand with another issue - http://www.darksmurf...nterpretation/. Hopefully, that matter will be resolved sooner so we can push through with this one. What we are doing now is just a DRAFT which we have to work on and finalize before moving it to the public forum.

    I agree with you on this one. Let us consider this as a draft and once we finish it up and make a finalized page, we can move it over to the public forum. We also need to finalize a few grammar issues.

    What I mean about grammar and spelling is the uniformity of the subtitles. Here is the post where I express my opinion on it:
    http://www.darksmurf...ndpost__p__3621

    Edit: Also, a good idea is to see how the other subtitle teams are doing with their spelling. If 99% of the other subtitle teams are using one type of spelling (Unnie, Ajussi) and we use some other method (Eonnie, Ajusshi) then it also breaks up the fluid issue that I mentioned in the uniformity post.


    I share your sentiments, Clent. I was watching MP12 days ago and I saw ",...", I just couldn't continue watching without taking a note on that and I had to edit it the following morning. We have a lot of editors, I also think it is not a concern of the translator anymore but it is a part of the editor's work to make the adjustment. I'm a little OCD and I am very particular with the number of dots after a phrase LOL.

    One line is not necessarily one sentence. Another practice I noticed:

    Line 1: If the results are forged,
    Line 2: Then they will have a problem

    another

    Line 1: If the results are fabricated,
    Line 2: Then they will have a problem

    The two lines should be treated as one sentence, hence 'Then' should be lowercase. You could also notice the differences with the use of words. In Sign for example, some prefer to use 'forge evidence' while others (like myself) use 'fabricated evidence'. I used fabricated instead of forged because "forge" has dual meaning in the English dictionary and might cause confusion, while "fabricate" is simpler to understand even if it is a longer word. The subs are being downloaded by different nationalities so we have to make the words simpler, BUT that doesn't mean we have to make the sentence simple by shortening it too much. This is in relation to the 'Translation vs Interpretation' issue and also depending on who is translating the line.

    I prefer to edit & QC than translate because I can't read the YCW (Yellow Chinese Words- c/o BB :P) and I just rely on multiple softwares and dictionaries. I take longer time to translate because I make sure I get the closest translation possible, but still I'm not 100% confident since I don't understand the original words I'm translating. So, given a choice and no offense meant to the others, I'd prefer those who CR-YCW (CAN-READ YCW) to do the translating, because they could capture even the way the sentence was constructed, retaining more of the Korean way of speaking. Since I'm one of those who can't read YCW, I usually ask those who CR-YCW to check my translations...and vice versa - I edit their translation because they are not so sure with the English and they're not watching the show. It is a good way of working, we compensate one another and we usually work at the same time, chatting as we go along if something needs clarification. I noticed that some lines translated by those who can't read the YCW are shorter compared to the lines done by those who can. Some adjectives, verbs & adverbs are removed and the line becomes too simple and too short. Capturing only the interpretation reduces the artistic value of the show. Unfortunately, those who CR-YCW are a few, that is why those who can't read YCW try to help out and start the work done the best way they know how...but the risk of committing mistakes is higher and the thought of the line might be altered a little. No one is to be blamed for that risk, CTS is open for all, but it can be reduced to a minimum and we can still come-up with quality translations.

    I'm so grateful for the efforts exerted by the members, some really spend hours translating and editing, which is simply :bow: This forum has evolved to a small community in a short period of time, amazing! :goodjob:

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    #19 broken_blade

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    Posted 15 Feb 11 - 11:52 AM

    is is possible to compile all these and put it into a "Translation Dictionary" on the webpage instead of people continue adding in and we might missed out some of the words.

    #20 Clent

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    Posted 15 Feb 11 - 12:24 PM

    is is possible to compile all these and put it into a "Translation Dictionary" on the webpage instead of people continue adding in and we might missed out some of the words.


    The first page will be updated once in a while until it is finalized (it is only a draft). Once we have a finalized version, we will post this up in the public forums.
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