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Common words in Korean and Japanese



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#1 Soo Mab

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    Posted 11 Apr 12 - 05:41 PM

    Hello Friends!

    I'm Soo Mab and this is my first Topic in the Asian Languages Forum. So, basically, the objective of this Topic to "Introduce you to words that exist in both Korean as well as in Japanese language". If you know any one of these languages already you'd find it amusing whereas if you don't know either you'd be learning 2 languages at once.

    I'm sure you'd find this very interesting and also I'll be supplementing the "words" with "Character Analysis" which is nothing but just an attempt to explain the meaning of the Chinese character used to write the word.

    Before I dive in to the discussion let me tell you What inspired me to come up with something like this. I was always fascinated by Asian characters (or Chinese characters) and about a few years back decided to take up and dig into some of Japanese. It has been a long journey since and even though I'm no expert in Japanese, now I can comprehend conversations and express my feelings (i.e. communicate) in Japanese. It is only recently that I developed a lot of interest in Korean and after a bit of analysis came to the conclusion that if there is some language on earth that is similar to Japanese then it has to be Korean! Of course there are clear cut differences, but I decided to look more into the similarity part.

    I'd like to mention a few more things. I'll follow RR (Revised Romanization) for romanizing Hangeul and Revised Hepburn romanization for Japanese. I am actually not very familiar with either of these romanization techniques since I have studied Japanese in the original script and the same applies to Hangeul. So, if there are some issues with the romanization please notify me about it.


    Before starting please take note the following terms:-


    Romaja = Korean Romanization

    Hangeul = Korean Script

    Hanja = Chinese Characters used in Korean

    Romaji = Japanese Romanization

    Kana = Japanese Script

    Kanji = Chinese Characters used in Japanese




    For detailed information on these, feel free toGoogle!

    Now let's Begin!Posted Image


    ========================================================

    [1] Let's start by looking at some Random Words. Here they are:-


    Posted Image

    Character Analysis
    Notice that the Chinese Characters used in Korean and Japanese are almost same! The only difference that arise in some cases is because in Korean (Hanja) we use more "Traditional" form of the characters, whereas in Japanese (Kanji) the characters are somewhat "simplified" (called Shinjitai or New Japanese Character forms)
    For example:-
    (寫 and 写) both mean Copy/describe
    (眞 and 真) both mean Truth

    So you add them to get 寫眞 or 写真 which means to copy or describe truth - i.e. a Picture! I guess this definition does not hold good today with so much post-processing we do and everything but as a basic definition I think its quite good!
    [Note]Its important not to mix up the traditional and simplified forms!
    I'm not explaining the other words, considering you may find this boring, but if you like this then I will surely do so!




    Now lets get to the Pronunciation part!
    I'd follow this order: ENGLISH-KOREAN-JAPANESE (EN-KO-JP)

    1. Photo-Sajin-Shashin
    2. Earthquake-Jijin-Jishin
    3. Promise-Yagsog-Yakusoku (sounds like yaksok in JP and not ya-koo-so-koo)
    4. Future-Mirae-Mirai




    Now you might have noticed there are variations in the "k" vs "g" sound or "sh" vs "j" sound. This applies to most of the words. The reason being that "g" is just a voiced version of "k" and the "g" in Korean is not like the English "g" and similarly the "k" in Japanese is also a little different - different enough so that when you say Yagsog/Yakusoku it would apparently sound the same! Same apply to the other words mentioned above. Even if it sounds a little different it will at-least be intelligible.


    That's it for today!
    Depending on the response I get, I will continue with the lessons.
    Hope you have enjoyed this lesson!
    Any queries, feel free to ask and don't forget to leave your replies.
    I'm looking forward to it^^




    Cheers!
    Soo Mab


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    #2 Yggdrasil

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    Posted 11 Apr 12 - 09:31 PM

    This is indeed quite an interesting phenomena that got its heritage in the Chinese language. As I'm working in with kanji and Chinese characters for my thesis in the Japanese Linguistics I'd be glad to help you move this discussion on a bit as well as correct a few statements. From the point where I've learnt classical Chinese, Korean as well as Japanese I'm also able to give some quite accurate information.

    First I'd like to point out that this doesn't really have much to do with character analyzing so far, as that would bring us closer to the etymology. Though I'd think that some people here also might be interested in the etymology of the characters as they now a days are quite abstract. This is a good site to look up the etymology.


    As the Chinese characters as we today know the comes from the oracle-bone script during the Shang dynasty and then continued to evolve due to technological improvements et.c. The characters carried by Buddhist beliefs to Korea, from where it again with the Buddhist beliefs was carried to Japan (538 A.D. variations on the year depending on how you count). The pronunciation that came with the characters then is galled go'on in Japanese and is the most commonly shared pronunciation with the Korean language. In other words, the ones teaching the Japanese people to write were Korean and not Chinese Buddhist monks, making the similarities apparent. This also enables a literate reader to know both the classical Chinese pronunciation as well as the modern.

    When you mention Shinjitai characters I'd like to point out that far from all characters were simplified, actually less than 2000 modernly used characters are simplified.

    Apart from this I can't state anything more than I'm glad to see a topic like this and that I hope to see more from you here among the Asian Language threads.

    As a parting gift I can recommend you a few good books,
    Writing and Literacy in Chinese, Korean, and Japanese by Insup Taylor

    Chinese Characters: Their Origin, Etymology, History, Classification and Signification by Wieger Léon


    Also, for Japan only: The Languages of Japan by Insup Taylor
    ___________________
    Edit

    I'd also say that usage of the modified Hepburn system is recommended [Look here], as well as that I'd like to make a clarification for those whom do not know Japanese that in this case, kana equals hiragana and not katakana (it might be wise to point it out).
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    #3 soracantabile

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    Posted 12 Apr 12 - 12:10 PM

    thank you for the lesson!^^

    i also heard some other words when i was watching kdramas..

    家族(かぞく)ー family
    and
    鞄 (かばん)ー bag

    are they also same?or only sound like same,,or maybe i heard it wrong? :panda_cheeky_haha:
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    ~~share your thoughts about entertainmenthere!~~

    〜美味しいものはいつでも美味しい〜
    〜ステキな服を着るとステキな人生になる〜


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    #4 Soo Mab

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    Posted 12 Apr 12 - 07:33 PM

    Annyong-haseyo! Posted Image

    First I'd like to thank all you guys for going through my article and liking it. Your encouragement means a lot to me and I'd like to keep receiving your reviews in the future^^
    I'm particularly thankful to Yggdrasil-Sensei for his valuable suggestions and the issues that he has brought to my notice. I'd like to address them here, before moving over to the main discussion. So, those of you who want to skip to the main lesson directly might scroll down a bit!

    ------------------------------------!!LESSON EXTRAS!!-----------------------------

    Here I'd attempt to clarify and correct a few things from my previous post that Yggdrasil-Sensei has pointed out. (Thank You again!)
    Let me start this discussion with a question that Sensei has already answered.
    1. "Why do we have shared vocabulary in Japanese and Korean?"
    The answer to this question can be traced back only to the origin of the characters and how these characters were introduced and used over the years throughout Eastern Asia. I'm not going much into the history part for now, but what I intend for us to understand is that these "common" words are not common by-chance or anything, but solely because its the "same" word that was/is being introduced/used in Korean and Japanese. Of course the words might have been adapted a little differently in the 2 languages but we can't ignore the similarity,can we?

    2. Regarding Character Etymology:-

    There are 2 reasons why I included the "Character Analysis" part in my first post. One is just to understand how the word is formed (ground+shake=earthquake and likewise). I thought that readers would find this kind of stuff quite interesting! However, there is a second reason why understanding or just knowing that words have been formed like this is important. Its a little difficult to explain, so I'll use an example. Consider English and some Romance Language like Spanish. Almost every word in English is "exactly translated" in Spanish and there is no loss of meaning involved in the process.
    (Example: Promise -> Promesa)
    But when we translate from English to Japanese or Japanese to English, we need to make a lot of "approximations" and only translate in a way to describe the intended meaning in a way that is easiest to understand. But, if you consider the case of Japanese to Korean or Korean to Japanese translation there is more of a 1-to-1 correspondence in word-meaning which means that most things in Japanese or Korean can be "exactly translated" into the other. "Exactly translated" does not mean a 100% but the quotient can be considered quite high! So these "common words" are nothing but words that are exact equivalents in Korean/Japanese.

    Consider this Example:-

    기분/氣分 reading "Gibun" in Korean
    きぶん/気分 reading "Kibun" in Japanese

    ...is described in English as "mood/feeling/sensation". The meaning may slightly vary based on the context and everything and we need to take care of that during translation!
    But if you're translating from Japanese to Korean or Korean to Japanese you need not worry about the little nuances in meaning that arises in case of English translation.
    In other words the word is "exactly translated" or rather you may say "its the same word!".

    Because this website is mainly dealing with Fan-subs I'd like to point out how the translators have to struggle with deciding the best possible translation of a word from Korean/Chinese into English. Whichever English word may be chosen, it always seems a little off-track from the intended original meaning and thus the significance of the original is lost in translation!

    Also it's worth mentioning that Japanese and Korean are quite similar in their sentence structure, grammar, etc,. But we'd leave that for some other time.

    3. Regarding Traditional and Simplified form of characters:-

    There are around 60,000 or more Chinese Characters in existence out of which only about 3000 is recognized officially in Japanese. Since some of the characters are very complex and contain as many as 34 strokes (example of 34 stroke Kanji :䯂) the characters get muddled when printed and are also difficult to write and remember. Therefore the so-called "Simplified" forms of the Kanji(s) were introduced during the late 1940's.
    But, there is one thing I'd like to clarify here - this process of Simplification was also done in China and the characters simplified in Chinese need not be simplified in Japanese and vice-versa. Also, some characters were simplified differently in Chinese and Japanese. In some rare cases, the traditional forms are still used even today! One such example is the Korean Language which is essentially written in Hangeul but can be supplemented with the Chinese Characeters (Hanja, as it is called in Korean).
    You can read more about Traditional and Simplified forms here ->
    http://en.wikipedia....2C_and_Japanese
    Also in my previous post I mentioned something like [(眞 and 真) both mean Truth ]. This is a little incorrect because 眞 and 真 are not 2 different characters having the same meaning but the same character written in a easier way (i.e. Simplified)
    I Hope that we are clear on this!

    4. Regarding Japanese Romanization:-

    As Sensei has suggested, I'd use the Revised/Modified Hepburn system here-on. Also, in my previous post I think all romanizations were in accordance with the Revised Hepburn System. The reason why Revised Hepburn romanization is better is because the transliterated word is represented more accurately using the English consonant and vowel sounds. (For example -> Syasin and Shashin are both romanizations of しゃしん but "Syasin" is a little misleading because one may be tempted to pronounce it as "Sia-seen" which is totally wrong, instead "Shashin" is a better approximation)

    5. Regarding Japanese Kana:-

    Even though we have "Hiragana" and "Katakana" in Japanese, "kana" solely refers to Hiragana. In fact, anything in Japanese can be written solely with the help of Hiragana - i.e. without using Kanji or Katakana. Hiragana is also the first set of alphabets that you learn in school. As such, Hiragana is often used to describe how to pronounce/read a Kanji by writing out its reading in small letters (called furigana) over the Kanji). This way even if you don't know the Kanji, you may guess the meaning based on the reading!

    Here is an example:-

    Posted Image

    Just by knowing the Hiragana にほん you can read that the word is "Nihon" (meaning Japan). Also this is quite helpful when there are ambiguities with how to read a particular Kanji especially in People's Names (Japanese people use a lot of uncommon Kanji* in their names and often they are not pronounced how they should be pronounced**!)

    *Uncommon Kanji = Kanji not included in the Jouyou List (2136 Kanji). There is a seperate list of Kanji called "Jinmeiyo Kanji" which is exclusively used to write people's names.
    **Nanori Reading, Ateiji etc.
    I'd discuss these some other time.
    ------------------------------!!END OF LESSON EXTRAS!!------------------------

    [2]

    Let's start today's lesson by thanking Soracantabile for already adding 2 words to our list!

    You can check her post above where she has mentioned "Kazoku" and "Kaban" meaning "Family" and "Luggage" respectively. In Korean these words are "Gajok" and "Gabang" respectively.


    Today I intend to discuss Institutions.

    Posted Image



    I hope that you've noticed the more Traditional characters used in Korean. If we are done with that we can move to the pronunciation part directly!
    (Word-KOREAN-JAPANESE)


    1. SCHOOL - HAGGYO - GAKKOU
    2. LIBRARY - DOSEOGWAN - TOSHOKAN (You can practice this with "Toshokan" which seems easier, "Doseogwan" is just slightly different in that there is a "gwa" instead of a "ka")
    3. UNIVERSITY - DAEHAGG - DAIGAKU (Sounds like DAY-HAAK in Korean, in Japanese more like DAI-GAK)
    4. HOSPITAL - BYONGWON - BYOUIN (Sounds like BYO-N-ON)


    To listen to the pronunciations you may use Google Translate or any other tool you may know! Since this post has become a bit too long I've decided not to explain the words character-wise.Posted ImageI hope you've enjoyed this lesson. Looking forward to your comments.
    Have a great day!

    Dewa Mata~
    Soo Mab

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    #5 Yggdrasil

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    Posted 12 Apr 12 - 08:52 PM

    Great work on the extras and on today's lesson! I'm sure that it proves helpful to many here in the forum!

    Also it looks great with a bit bigger of a font size on the picture as it was this time, as the Korean was easier to read.
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    #6 Soo Mab

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    Posted 14 Apr 12 - 11:47 AM


    "Common Words in Korean and Japanese"  第三回にようこそ!


    第三回にようこそ!→ daisankai ni youkoso → Welcome to the 3rd (Round)



    Today we'll look at a Mixed Bag of words! Let's begin...!

    Posted Image





    The first two words are nothing but adaptations from Foreign Languages other than Chinese.

    "Arubaito" or "Areubaiteu" is basically adapted from the German word ARBEIT which means "work".

    Rimokon, as the name suggests is a contraction of "Remote Control". There are similar words like "Ae-eo-keon"/"Eakon" for AC and so on...

    "Unmei" and "Unmyeong" both mean Luck/Fate/Destiny


    The Last word requires a bit detailed explanation.


    A Gayageum is basically a traditional Korean musical Instrument that resembles a zither.


    Posted Image



    Incidentally it also called "Kayakin" in Japanese and also sometimes written as "Kayagum" in McCune-Reischauer Romanization of Korean.


    If we look at how it's written:-


    (ga/ka)
    (ya/ya)
    (geum/kin)


    The Last character itself means a "Harp" or "koto" in Japanese which is a Stringed Japanese Zither.


    I'd add that the Gayageum's music is really very soothing and melodious and you must listen to it sometime!
    I suppose all you must have heard SNSD's "Gee" right?
    Just goto Youtube and search "Gee Gayageum" and check out the results. Just Awesome!


    That's it for today. See you guys again^^
    Soo Mab



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    #7 Yggdrasil

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    Posted 14 Apr 12 - 03:16 PM

    Another great one! I especially enjoyed the explanation of Gayageum, and that you referred to Youtube videos of it so that people can listen to its sound! Although I must not forget to mention that i am very please to see that you explained that the first two words are loanwords from western languages and therefore are similar due to that they are transcriptions.

    When it comes to the Japanese I'd like to make a note of that 第3回にようこそ should be 第3回へようこそ while 'ni' would be correct using theoretical grammar, it should be 'e' in this case. Also the transcription of ようこそ should be 'yōkoso' and not 'youkoso' that is how the word would be transcribed using wapuro and not the modified Hepburn system.
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    #8 Soo Mab

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    Posted 17 Apr 12 - 07:28 PM

    Hello Again!Posted Image

    Today, we'll break free from our usual pattern and see things a little differently!

    Just look at the 2 sentences below

    [1] Sekai ni ningen ga imasu.
    [2] Segye ro ingan-i issseubnida.


    Whatever you are thinking, probably is correct!
    Sentence 1 is in Japanese while Sentence 2 is in Korean.


    While it may be machine translated as "World in human is", an even better translation would be "Humans exist in (this) world"


    Firstly make note that I came up with this sentence just to site an example and that though its grammatically correct and perfectly okay in Japanese, its usage in Korean may sound a little strange. (I'm 90% sure that it is correct in Korean!)


    "Sekai" or "Segye" both refer to the world (but not as in earth), but to something much greater (almost like a universe, but again there is different word Uchū/Uju in Japanese/Korean respectively that specifically refers to the "Universe")


    "Ningen"/"Ingan" is used to refer to "humans" or "human beings".


    Also note that "imasu" (Japanese) is used to indicate that something animate* "is" or "exists" or "is there". Same definition applies to "issseubnida" (Korean).
    Regarding "issueubnida", its a very formal way of stating things and it sounds like "ee-soo-mee-dah". I'm sure everyone has heard "issseubnida" in dramas, specially when there are announcements being made, news being read, a very formal situation or the person is talking to an elder. (It's called jondenmal or formal style, whereas casual style is called banmal)


    *imasu is used only with living things such as man, animals etc., and arimasu is used with all other inanimate objects. However in Korean, there is no such distinction made and "issseubnida" may be used with both living and non-living things.




    Also look at these terms related to our discussion today and note how amazingly they resemble each other in Korean and Japanese.

    Order:- English*::Japanese::Korean
    *since there are multiple meanings, I'm mentioning the most common;

    [-] World :: Sekai :: Segye
    [-] Human :: Ningen :: Ingan
    [1] Universe :: Uchū :: Uju
    [2] Globe(Earth) :: Chikyū :: Jigu
    [3] Ground(Earth) :: Daichi :: Daeji
    [4] Life(Human) :: Jinsei :: Insaeng
    [5] Existence(Life):: Seimei :: Saengmyeong


    Hope you enjoyed today's lesson!
    I'm planning to write another lesson extra explaining the grammatical and constructional similarities in Japanese and Korean...Posted Image
    Until then...Annyong!
    Posted Image
    Soo Mab
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    #9 Yggdrasil

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    Posted 22 Apr 12 - 02:05 PM


    I'm planning to write another lesson extra explaining the grammatical and constructional similarities in Japanese and Korean...Posted Image


    I'm really looking forward to this! If you'd want some references for it I'd be more than happy to assist youPosted Image

    Posted Image

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    #10 Soo Mab

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    Posted 22 Apr 12 - 04:36 PM

    I'm really looking forward to this! If you'd want some references for it I'd be more than happy to assist youPosted Image


    Sure, help me! I have my exams knocking on the door, so I need a bit more time before I can come up with something concrete.Posted Image

    Maybe I'll post the next lesson this Friday.


    ↓Apparently something went wrong when I tried to post this reply. It seems the same post was repeated 5 times.Posted Image So, I'm replacing the posts below with -=Blank=-

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    #11 Soo Mab

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    Posted 22 Apr 12 - 04:37 PM

    Apologies for posting this late. I was very busy lately and couldn't really find time.Posted Image
    Jeongmal Mian.


    Here we'd see a basic sentence pattern that is predominant in both KR and JP.


    Here it is:-


    [KR] N1 eun* N2 iyeyo*.
    [JP] N1 ha* N2 desu.


    English Meaning: N1 is N2. As for N1 (regarding N1), it is N2; where N1 and N2 represent nouns respectively.

    *eun is replaced by neun if N1 ends in a vowel sound
    *iyeyo is replaced by yeyo if N2 ends with a vowel sound.
    *ha is pronounced as "wa".


    Examples:-


    [1]
    EN: Michael is a student.
    KR: Maikael eun hagsaeng iyeyo.
    JP: Maikeru ha gakusei desu.



    [2]
    EN: Yuna is Korean (person).
    KR: Yuna neun hangug-saram iyeyo.
    JP: Yuna ha kankokujin desu.



    [3]
    EN: What is this?
    KR: Igeo neun mwo yeyo?
    JP: Kore ha nan desuka?




    Hope you liked it! More coming soon^^

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    #12 Soo Mab

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    Posted 22 Apr 12 - 04:38 PM

    In reference to my previous post, please note that in Korean "neun"/"eun" is often dropped during conversation. So something like N1 N2 yeyo/iyeyo will do as well.

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    #13 Soo Mab

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    Posted 22 Apr 12 - 04:38 PM

    Just a Short Post

    Names of our favorite Countries!
    Posted Image


    What do the Names Mean?
    -------------------------------------


    [1] America = 美国
    美 = Beautiful
    国 = Country
    Note:- This meaning does not hold in the Japanese term for America.

    [2] China = 中国
    中 = Center/Middle (zhong/jung/chuu)
    国 = Country (guo/guk/koku)

    [3] South Korea = 韓国
    韩/韓 = HAN/Korea (han/han/kan)
    国 = Country (guo/guk/koku)

    [4] Japan = 日本
    日 = Sun (ri/il/ni)
    本 = Main/Root (ben/bon/hon)
    -------------------------------------------------------


    For those of you who have watched dramas like Rooftop Prince might know that the entire Korean Peninsula (including North) used to be called JOSEON. The term exists in Japanese as "CHOUSEN" and in Mandarin as "CHAOXIAN"

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    #14 Soo Mab

    Soo Mab

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    Posted 22 Apr 12 - 04:39 PM

    Sorry, that I wasn't able to post something in a long time. Posted Image

    Updated - 20th June 2012

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    #15 Yggdrasil

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    Posted 22 Apr 12 - 06:35 PM

    Sure, help me! I have my exams knocking on the door, so I need a bit more time before I can come up with something concrete.Posted Image

    Maybe I'll post the next lesson this Friday.


    ↓Apparently something went wrong when I tried to post this reply. It seems the same post was repeated 5 times.Posted Image So, I'm replacing the posts below with -=Blank=-


    Oh, that's strange :o

    Well yeah, I got exams and the deadline for my thesis coming up soon too, but I'm sure that we can take come up with something till Friday :) I'll send you a pm about some ideas!
    • Asiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii and Soo Mab like this

    Posted Image

    Posted Image


    "Language shapes the way we think, and determines what we can think about."
    -Benjamin Lee Whorf

    "You can never understand one language until you understand at least two"
    -Geoffrey Willans


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    #16 Soo Mab

    Soo Mab

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    Posted 12 Oct 12 - 11:16 AM

    Hello!

    It's been like forever since I've posted something.

    Recently, I was watching an Anime called "Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei" and I realized they were frequently using some uncommon Kanji for representing numbers. (We all know how to write Japanese/Chinese numbers, right?)


    No worries even if you don't.

    I've compiled a List of all the number Kanji(s) (upto 10,000) into a Master Table and I hope it would be helpful.


    Posted Image

    Click on the picture for an enlarged view.

    You can Download a Higher Quality (~500KB) Version here -> http://www.mediafire...8880vyadcecfx12



    Now, Question Answer Time!

    <I will fill this up later when I have time. Most of them are Self-explanatory. Feel free to Google but don't get confused>

    Q1. What are Current Form In Most Common Use?

    Ans -

    Q2. What are Current Form In Alternative Use?

    Ans -

    Q3. What are Not Used in Japanese?

    Ans -
    Q4. What is Vulgar Writing Style?

    Ans -

    Q5. What is Alternative Style?

    Ans -

    Q6. What is Japanese Simplified (Shinjitai) ?

    Ans -

    Q7. What are Simplified Chinese Characters?

    Ans -

    Q8. What are Traditional Characters?

    Ans -

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    From: Common words in Korean and Japanese [1]

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